- Personal size is 95 x 171 mm
- A6 is 105 x 148 mm
- Pocket is 81 x 120 mm
- A7 is 74 x 105mm
- Mini is 67 x 105mm
Therefore, Personal size and A6 are not the same....
Likewise, Pocket or Mini and A7 are also not the same....
A6 and A7 are defined in ISO 216 details here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_standard_paper_sizes
The important part of the standard, which is a bit of a long read is:
Tolerances
- The tolerances specified in the standard are:±1.5 mm for dimensions up to 150 mm,
- ±2.0 mm for dimensions in the range 150 to 600 mm, and
- ±3.0 mm for dimensions above 600 mm.
Please planner people, stop referring to Filofax Pocket/Mini as A7 size.... it is not.
I think we lost the battle with regards to Personal <>A6 long ago that ship has sailed and it causes lots of wrong purchases.
Please don't let this happen to Filofax Pocket or Mini size as well.
Thank you.....
I can just about forgive the Mini/A7 confusion. Pocket/Personal/A6, certainly not.
ReplyDeleteMany listings simply ignore the clearly embossed size.
Incorrectly described paper; who knows in which direction the error is...?
The Japanese market doesn't help; their nomenclature seems to be at odds with ISO sizes, even though the JIS A series should be the same as ISO (JIS B series is different to ISO B series)
M5, A7, A8, etc, bends my head.
The Japanese market is a lot more strict than the Chinese.
DeleteIn Japan, they use ISO-A4, JIS-B5 and ISO-A5 as standard sizes. Then:
- Personal = Bible
- ISO-A6 is very uncommon, but they use "B-TAO" being JIS-B6 Landscape with 14mm punching margin: 196mm wide, 128mm tall
- Pocket = Mini 6, M6, Small
- Mini = Mini 5, Micro 5, M5
Chinese sources count from A5 up to A9, but they did not realize the difference between Personal and A6 size, hence the A6 problem.
CN-A5 = ISO-A5
CN-A6 = Personal or ISO-A6
CN-A7 = Pocket
CN-A8 = Mini
CN-A9 = 80x60 or similar (e.g. fake "Miniature")
Hans
Aha! Chinese sizes, not Japanese; that makes a lot more sense, since these sizes are usually of Chinese origin. And clearly not related to ISO216 A-series (halving area) sizes (apart from A5, perhaps?), since ISO A7 is closer to Mini, not Pocket.
DeleteThanks, Hans; informative as ever.
Just to clarify the above: The mentioned CN- formats are not an official standard, just a quick notation for Chinese wording. They have accepted that A5 is what we agree on, and then applied the rule: "smaller paper, higher number" - except for the Personal/A6 glitch.
DeleteThe Japanese M-Notation simply states the nuber of consecutive rings, hence M6 and M5. M3 would be Miniature, and M4 the format only Kevin knows about.
The "natural" names can lead to confusion in a non-Filofax environment: Quo Vadis Pocket is a slightly narrower Personal Format, and a FC Pocket is similar to a narrow A6.
The most confusion is actually among the Pocket-like formats (~120x80mm) that are called "Junior", "Timer 14", "Mini", " Timing 3", "Partner", or "Jotter" by other companies.
I think that's the reason why many people want to stick to the numbered A-Series, although the sizes don't match the standard values. Numbers are international and neutral - no trap like for Mitsubishi Pajero and Mazda Laputa in Spain. Although some numbers can mean good or bad fortune in some cultures...
But I don't know of any serious company that did call their ~A6 size variant A6. Mulberry Agenda is the format that comes closest to true ISO-A6. Succes Senior and Org Junior are narrower variants (95mm).
Hans
... and some additional notes regarding the Chinese A9 format. You get lots of hits when searching for "A9 Ring Binder" at Amazon, ebay, Aliexpress, etc.
DeleteMost of these are 3-Ring binders for 80x60mm paper, sometimes 80x80mm or 80x44mm, while ISO-A9 is actually 52x37mm.
The three rings have a spacing of three "Japan Pitch" units of 9.5mm, i.e. 28.5mm ring spacing (usually stated as 28mm). There seems to be only one ring mechanics of 19-20mm ring diameter available. Some of these ring binders are therefore advertised as 3-ring 19mm, which could be confused with the 3-ring "Miniature" format having 19mm ring spacing.
Hans
> and M4 the format only Kevin knows about.
DeleteDid you not manage to buy the one I pointed you to...? Maybe I should send Steve some pictures...
That was meant to be a joke. Yes, I did, but I can keep a secret.
DeleteMy personal ”favourite” is a new one to me, namely Personal Wide being labelled and sold as ”A6” (the shop also sold ”Personal”-sized stuff, which actually was correct).
ReplyDeleteThis post was the result of sorting through videos for a recent Video Web Finds. Two different You Tubers did set up videos of their 'A7 Rings' but one was clearly a Pocket, the other a Mini !!!
ReplyDeleteHans' reply to me probably explains that discrepancy; the YouTuber may have bought a Chinese A7 'Pocket'. As I said above, ISO A7/Mini is just about forgivable, and, in fact, I have an version of my DofE manual printed to A7 and fitting nicely in a lovely Microfile Mini.
DeleteI fear we are never going to overcome the confusion the Chinese nomenclature causes, since it's the Chinese who make everything...